Graham White Solicitors, parking companies and the law
So… you park in a car park where there are no clear signs of how you should pay or how much you should pay, or indeed to whom you should pay it. Then you get a threatening letter some time later charging a fine for “illegal” parking. Then the debt collector’s letters start, then the solicitor’s letters, and ultimately the threatening, intimidating phone calls. I bet the majority of you will just pay up. And I’m not being sexist here, but most of the people who pay up will be female – they’re just so easy for these telephone debt collectors to intimidate. That’s the reason this racket continues to grow into a multi-million pound business.
I had just such a run-in with Meteor Parking at Brighton Station car park. Visit the car park and you’ll see entry and exit barrier machines all wrapped up in plastic with their barriers removed, as if they’re now disused, which in fact they are. You’ll see cameras dotted about. But until recently you wouldn’t have seen clear signage that says whose car park this is, how much it costs and displaying clear terms and conditions, and it’s debateable whether they’re clear even now. Even if you did see such things, merely parking in the car park would not represent a clear breach of contract – because under UK law you cannot unwittingly enter into any contract, or be tricked into entering into one.
So when you get the “fine”, be very clear in your mind. Though it’s made to look threatening, and as similar as possible to something from the Police or government, that’s just the first part of the process of intimidation. It’s not a fine. A fine can only be levied by an organisation authorised by statute, that is when a law has been passed or a license granted by government to collect such a fine. Meteor Parking is not. Nor are a whole host of other parking companies (Park Direct Ltd, TCP, UK Parking Control, Euro Car Parks etc) which have sprung up over the past 20 years. All they can do is issue you with an invoice, and even then it’s fraudulent if there’s not a clear contract that you’ve entered into with your full knowledge.
So let’s turn to the debt collectors – Roxburghe – well, apart from sending a threatening letter or two, they were pretty ineffectual. The worrying one is “Graham White Solicitors”. Check their records. They have one solicitor listed – one Michael David Sobell, who was admitted as a solicitor in 1962 – http://www.lawsociety.org.uk/choosingandusing/findasolicitor/view=solicitordetails.law?id=183218&orgid=272121&searchType=L. But you’ll never hear from him… instead you get letters threatening you, intimidating you, and even adding extra charges from nowhere for “administration” or “costs”. Then you get calls – several per week – what sounds like and is clearly a busy call centre, staffed by rather cocky, pushy chaps claiming to represent Graham White Solicitors who will desperately try to justify their attempts to get you to pay up with a credit card over the phone. These are not solicitors – nor paralegals – nor legal secretaries. These are just call centre debt collectors. They quote laws that don’t exist. They claim powers for authorities who either don’t exist or who have no such powers (like the British Parking Association who, it was claimed, have the power to license or shut down ANY car park in the UK – which they don’t – they’re just a professional association). They say you’ve parked “illegally”, which suggests that you’re in breach of some sort of parking control legislation – but at the most it’s a minor breach of an implicit, assumed contract. They will threaten your credit rating. They will threaten civil litigation, small claims court, county court judgements (CCJs) – anything they can use to worry you into paying. One complete idiot even mentioned getting points on my driving license if I didn’t pay up! Eventually they’ll even start offering you discounts if you pay right now. They really don’t like it when you actually know more than they do – which generally isn’t hard, if you’ve done your research. Several times they’ve lost their temper and put the phone down on me.
Feeling alone? Don’t. Look here… http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=2329119&page=1 - and see that there are lots of people in the same position. Let’s use some logic for a moment – through all this I have been in contact with a whole host of people employed solely to collect money on a rather dodgy principle of law. If this wasn’t a huge money-making enterprise, how on earth could they afford all this? Go-Ahead sold Meteor Parking to Vinci Park Services in September 2010 for a whopping £11M. Then there’s Graham White Solicitors – all those employees, all that effort. And so much desperation in their tactics. So please don’t be intimidated into paying if you don’t think you should.
Oh, and… this is to the Law Society, the Solicitors Regulation Authority and the Legal Ombudsman. If you’re fed up with your noble profession being viewed in a negative light; if you’d like to be seen by the public as an honourable, trustworthy profession… well, you know what to do. Regulate your solicitors. Put your house in order.
N.B. The firm Graham White Solicitors mentioned in this article is Graham White Solicitors of Manor House, Lavender Park Road, West Byfleet, KT14 6ND, tel 01932 332 020, fax 01932 352 617 specialising in Civil Litigation, Commercial Property, Landlord and Tenant and is wholly unrelated to Graham White & Co of Bushey, Herts.
Update, February 2012: For more than six months I’ve heard nothing more from Roxburghe or Graham White Solicitors, or indeed Meteor Parking. Today I sent the following email to The Law Society, because I know if I was leading a professional body like the Law Society, I’d be pretty damned annoyed about someone taking the good name of the profession in vain like the so-called “Graham White Solicitors”.
What an excellent piece of advice. I hope you don’t mind, but I have linked this blog to the above Moneysavingexpert parking forum.
Thanks so much for this. Have received a Graham White letter yesterday and this has put my mind at ease about ignoring the letters.
I hope the phone calls don’t start! I shall simply recite your words from above and then hang up.
I am in receipt of letter
from graham white Solicitors threatening all sorts of nasties
and costs etc for an alleged parking violation back in
July ticket issued by Parking eye.
So far I have ignored
all correspondence from these people as although I can admit to being
the registered keeper of the vehicle I can categorically state that
i was not driving this vehicle on that day and i am not entirely sure
who was – could’ve been any one of about 6 different people. should
i hold my nerve?
Well of course I’m not professionally qualified to advise you either way, but just look at it this way… All they have is UK contract law, and if there’s any doubt as to there being a contract between you and their client then perhaps it’s best to leave it to a court to decide. But of course, that’s for you to judge.
Thank you for this advice. I have been told that mt PCN will be refered to Graham White so it is good to know of this material. Having become aware of the problems faced by many people, I’ve created a petition at change.org to put pressure on companies working with Graham White/Roxburghe debt collectors.
Please sign the petiton at http://www.change.org/petitions/campaign-against-illegal-practices-by-private-car-park-companies-and-debt-collectors and provide details to support the campaign.
Best wishes
Rory Ridley-Duff
I had a run in with all of those mentioned in the article in 2008. My daughter, then a medical student, parked in a car park without any signage beside a Cardiff Hospital. The land was owned by the local NHS trust. I replied to Graham White Solicitors as follows:
“I refer to your letter of 9th inst. I have communicated twice to Roxburghe Debt Collectors on 24th ult and 7th inst. In both letters I requested information as to the alleged parking misdemeanor. I reitterate that as the letter from Roxburghe was the first I heard of this matter- more than five months after the 3rd June, it seems only fair that you should furnish some proof, preferably photographic, of your allegations. If you cannot furnish this proof, please do not continue to harrass me”.
Three years later, I have had no further communication from these solicitors. The biggest joke was that at the time (and still now I believe) parking in hospital car parks was free in Wales. But of course one would not necessarily know that if domiciled in London.
My advice is: stand up to them, ask for proof and threaten harassment if they continue to write unsupported threatening letters. And I’ll sign the petition.
Sirs,
Thanks for your correspondence above in relation to this. I too have received communication from Roxburghe and now Graham White Solicitors, but never anything from the car park management team.
My story is that I allegedly parked in a car park in a town that I have never visited. The vehicle in question was a hire car, of which I was the only driver.
I wrote back to Roxburghe asking them to provide supportive evidence. None has been forthcoming. A month later I have received the solicitors letter, and also a text message saying that I needed to contact Roxburghe URGENTLY.
Mr Sobell writes, “You have previously been given the opportunity to resolve this PARKING CHARGE NOTICE by way of payment or provision of information and you have chosen to either disregard or ignore it.” So and email reply to Roxburghe, and a reply received from Naser Shah, without significant evidence, constitutes ignorance?
I will write to Mr Sobell – who apparently doesn’t sign his own letters, as it’s a computer printed signature – and ask him to inform his clients that I will await the receipt of the evidence in due time, but considering that neither “Car Park Solutions Ltd” nor “Roxburghe” were able to furnish this within 28 days I will consider the matter closed. Any furhter correspondence in any form without evidence will be considered harassment and/or threatening behaviour, to which I will seek remedy.
I’ll also sign up on the petition.
In reference to S Groves comment on November 5th, I would be interested to see what the outcome is if you do indeed send a letter to Mr Sobell requesting evidence that they can prove who the driver was of the vehicle in question and if unable to furnish this within 28 days you will consider the matter closed. I like the added – Any further correspondence in any form without evidence will be considered harassment and/or threatening behaviour, to which I will seek remedy….
I am also in receipt of a letter serving “notice of intended litigation” and up until this point I have not answered any letters. We shall wait and see…
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE ADVICE, MINES A HOROR STORY regarding the imminent delivery of twins. If anybody would like to know the story please contact me via my e mail.
or comment on this page and i will contact you
regards
Andrew Vaughan
@ D Foster
I didn’t reply to Mr Sobell in the end, but 1 week later a received an email with photos of a car. It wasn’t the car I was in possession of at the time. See my reply to Roxburghe below. To date I have yet to receive an apology, or confirmation that the matter is now closed. Hopefully they’ll take me to court.
From: xxxxxxx
To: xxxxxxx
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 16:47:57 +0000
Subject: Photographic Evidence Re: PCN
Good afternoon,
Please find attached photographic evidence in regards to PCN reference 16xxx (Our Ref: 2xxxxxx4)
I trust this is satisfactory and resolves your query.
Please call 01932 332 048 to arrange payment or to discuss this further.
Please DO NOT reply to this email.
Regards,
————————————————–
Dear Mr xxxxx,
Unfortunately I WILL NOT CALL YOU TO ARRANGE PAYMENT, yet another completely unnecessary and impolite demand for monies from a business who I am beginning to think are completely disreputable. I will however reply to your email via the previously received email address (I’m not quite sure why you choose not to answer your own email address – but that’s not important); as I need to show you the evidence that you, your colleagues at Roxburghe, your solicitor, and more importantly your agents Car Park Solutions have failed to notice, or more importantly failed to identify and act upon.
What makes this more frustrating and believe me, I’m furious that it has got to the stage that Roxburghe have instructed a solictor to chase this alleged debt; is that when eventually the photo has been supplied it is blatantly obvious that this IS NOT THE CAR SUPPLIED TO ME BY ALBANY ASSISTANCE. It might be a different model (possibly a Corsa), the colour looks a little darker perhaps blue, but the real give away the registration number. The car I hired was xx xx VCC. The photo shows a car with the registration xx xx VCO. A small but quite important difference.
Attached for your further due diligence are the documents I have in relation to this matter. You and all associated should be thankful that I had not instructed solicitors to defend my case incurring costs that I would now be seeking remedy for, and that in order to draw a line under this matter I am not going to seek any personal losses. However, also attached is a demand for administration charges I have previously received from Albany Assistance. As you might have worked out by now I haven’t paid them any money either. They were contacted on the same day that I first replied to Roxburghe, and as yet I’ve received no further correspondence from them. They are also copied in on this email, as they may wish to pursue their losses directly from Roxburghe, as this is in effect your error, and not mine. For clarity I re-confirm I have never been to Sutton-In-Ashfield.
Mr xxxxx, all of this time, and unnecessary stress, could have been avoided from day one if Roxburghe had done approriate due diligence on the claim when initially lodged by Car Park Solutions Ltd.
Please reply to me with:
a/. A full apology
b/. Confirmation that this is now a closed file
Regards
I’m as astonished as you are that this could have gone so far, yet unsurprised by the incompetence displayed here. All regulatory parties remain silent on the matter; I can only assume it’s because of the money generated fom the easily bullied.
I received a letter, which happens to be the second letter notifying me that my fine for parking at Luton airport drop zone was now £120 a few days ago and now today i received the solicitor letter asking for £207.25, with all sort of fees added to it.
I am now very worried and unless someone can tell me any better I will pay as I am too worried this could become even more expensive.
Guy, as you know I’m not a lawyer and I can’t really advise you; I’m just a chap who sticks up for his rights and refuses to be bullied. But I’ll tell you what I’d do… unless a) there’s a clear point of law cited in the claim, and b) the extra fees could be justified as “reasonable”, and c) I entered into a contract with the parking company knowingly – then I’d tell them to get stuffed. Bullying and pressure is the tactic used to get easy money. But unless there’s something for the court to find in their favour, it won’t go to court. They’ll threaten all sorts… but let’s put aside some of the ones I’ve heard: It can’t damage your credit score. They can’t add points to your driving license. They can’t take your car away and crush it. They can’t seize your property unless a court orders it. Personally I’d love this country to actually produce something again instead of just employing people to extort money out of fellow citizens. But this is the UK in 2011, and it stinks.
Guy, the full details of your case are unclear, but may be you want to review the thread:
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=60343&st=100
This appears to be the only case that is going to court in relation to PCE. This isn’t in relation to Roxburghe or Graham White, but it might help you decide whether to challenge the excessive nature of the claims you have received.
Also, what evidence have the agencies provided to support their claim?
@Guy, Have you reviewed the Pepipoo thread? The fellow went to court. He was required to pay only the losses – £15 (2x £5 parking charges, and 2 x £2.50 DVLA searches), and was charged court costs, of £95. The agency tried to claim legal costs of £5000 which wasn’t awarded. Basically the £95 costs would have been waived if the guy had offered the losses in the first instance. Therefore, the advice might be to offer the losses only at this point. If this isn’t accepted then go to court. Hope this helps.
Hi there, I have recieved a letter from ‘Graham white solicitors’ requesting payment for a PCN but no dates times etc on the letter. I have asked for photogrphic evidence of the ‘ticket’ in question – as I am not aware of any ticket and have never recieved a letter from Roxburghe r vinci parking stated on the letter. Also the letter was written on 25/11/11 requesting for repsonse in seven days BUT i had the letter through the post this morning on 3rd December!!!!!
Hi S Groved
I am sending a letter to them today asking for the proof of the offence.
Even if I did overstay in that instance I cannot understand how this can justify a fine of £122.00 and now more since then I received a letter from a supposed to be solicitor…..all that for a £ 1.00 originally.
But thank you for your help.
I will not judge the bit about the UK in 2011 since I am not from here..but lived here since 1979.
sorry about the error in your name…….
@Guy, Sounds like you need to offer them £3.50. See what they say. £1 for the overstay, and £2.50 for their costs in identifying you.
These companies are not entitled to the money claimed. Their claim is based in contract: they allege that, in parking in the carpark, the driver (and, NB, it is the driver, not the registered keeper, who may not have been driving) has impliedly agreed to comply with the terms set out on their signs. They argue that it is an agreed term of the contract that, if someone parks in contravention of the conditions stated, that driver agrees that they will pay the sum stated, typically £100 or thereabouts. There are significant problems with this argument. Firstly, they have to prove that the driver agreed to enter a contract on those terms. The driver may be deemed to have read and understood the terms, but that is arguable. It depends how prominent the conditions were. A court would need to be persuaded that the conditions were sufficiently prominent to be read and understood by the driver, or that they ought to have been, and in parking the driver agreed to be legally bound by those terms. Even if they get over that hurdle, however, a party is only entitled to recover damages for breach of contract which are equivalent to the loss suffered as a consequence of that breach. What, then, is the value of the loss suffered? It is certainly not £100. That sounds very much like a “penalty”. Penalties are not enforceable in law. You can include a term that includes an estimate of the losses which would be incurred if the contract was breached. The figures demanded plainly bear no relation to any such losses.
They will press very hard for the identity of the driver. The driver is the party to the contract. Without the driver’s details, they will not even get off the ground. I do not believe that they are entitled to be told who the driver was. Various rules of court are typically cited, threatening applications against the registered driver to obtain the name. The basis for such applications seems to me to be extremely feeble and I doubt very much whether any such application would be made. I am also unaware of any claim, which has been defended, which has been successful, although I have not checked out the link above yet. I am currently corresponding with the “litigation department” of one of these companies. It has been going on for months. I am enjoying it, but that’s just me. They are yet to explain to me how (in my case) they can recover anything in relation to parking for longer than 2 hrs in a free car park, or how the sum claimed can be said to be a reasonable estimate of the losses suffered. Nonsense. I do not believe they have any claim.
On a Sunday in Manchester, driving around following the signs to an official car park where we were happy to pay the rate asked to park as we were in a strange city and only having a lunch with out daughter before heading all the way back to Scotland, the signs led us into a car park where the barrier arm was tied up and had tape over the mchine that was supposed to produce a ‘time card ticket’ or something similar, with a notice saying “out of Order”. It looked as though the car park had been ‘officially’ abandoned for some time. It was a Sunday morning there was only a few cars parked and, perhaps because of all the autumn leaves in addition to the the tape, the place did indeed look abandoned. There were four of us in the car all competing to pay the cost of the parking, not one of us ‘clocked’ the signs, which we learned from subsequent correspondence, were ‘supposed’ to be ‘clearly displayed’ informing us of the conditions and ‘agreement’ by which we accepted parking our car there. We learned some time later when a very ‘Official’ form with photographs of our car entering and leaving the car park arrived in the post saying that (having stayed slightly over two hours) we were being charged £30 or £60 parking fee if we did not pay with a few days. Well he have now arrived at £177 (Talk about ‘double you money’) and a whole series of increasingly threatening letters from “Parking Eye”, Roxburgh Dept Collectors, to this Michael Sobel of Graham White Silicitors.
I am a old age pensioner and Yes! I feel very bulled, intiminated and threatened and the charges and add ons are excessive and I outwith by budget. As they had failed to make clear that there was a parking fee, and what it was, and had they requested this in there correspondence what that was we would have been hapy to pay including a reasonable admin charge. It was their fault that a customer willing to pay did not find a convenient method to so do.
@ Fergus
Firstly I am not a solicitor, only another victim of the incompetences of these parking charge companies. My views are my own and may not be legally correct, they are only what I have developed in the last 4 months from reading various threads about the ways PCNs are followed up.
Fergus this is a concern for you I know, but there is a case that has recently been taken to court by Parking Eye as described above. Parking Eye won the case but only their parking losses. Do you know what the fee for the car-park was? If it was free for 2 hours, as appears from your text, and the car park was not full, then you can, and should, argue that they have suffered no loss. Stand your ground, correspond with them in writing only, and make a genuine offer to settle (with no money needed). If there was a charge for the first 2 hours then offer this in full and final settlement. They are not allowed to apply a penalty, only to recover losses. If they incur additional costs during this process then that is their own fault. The only additional cost you need to offer is the fee for the DVLA search, my understanding is this is only £2.50. Let them take you to court. By going to court they are obliged to present evidence that you contravened the parking area notices; remeber you are innocent until proved guilty. I would expect that they would have to provide images of the notices in the correct area, and clearly visible to customers, and evidence that the payment machines were working, or that there was an alternative method for collection. If they weren’t then you should not be at fault. May be ask them to provide accounts for the day in question. How much revenue did they receive from vehicles parked in the car park on the day in question, that was collected on that day, and how much are they seeking in penalties?
As a pensioner if you can’t afford the penalty, then even if found at fault by a court what “fine” will the court apply to you? Probably nothing, and if you offer to settle now then costs may be waived too. Please look at the thread I’ve detailed above. The whole case is very interesting.
I also have a story related to current dealings with Graham White Solicitors and parking at the Leicester Royal Infirmary last year.
Followed from above post:
The story in a nutshell is:
Was collecting new born baby daughter from hospital
Parked in 30 min area in front of maternity ward
Just about to leave when baby was taken very ill and rushed to the special care baby unit in an incubator, oxygen, drip, antibiotics etc… all very stressful and frightening
Daughter stayed in hospital for another week in special baby care unit fighting an infection
Returned to vehicle slightly late for obvious reasons(approx 30 mins late)
£80 parking charge notice issued by CMS – ignored
A while laterfirst payment demand frm CMS arrived – ignored
A few months later another demand from CMS now for £130 – ignored
A few months later – letter from Graham White entitled “Notice of intended litigation” adding costs of £207 to the already £130
Threats to start county court proceedings
Letter threatens “seriously effect you getting credit for 6 years”…”baliff to attend your address and remove goods
“pay now” …blah blah blah
I had read lots of comments/blogs and info on the web and 99% said “DONT PAY” , dont respond, dont reply, call or acknowledge anything from them…… was this the right thing to do?
I would really appreciate some comments from your readers on what i should now do. They have a pic of me parked in the bay, but parking in the bay isnt a problem its the overstay they are trying to fine me for.
All comments greatfully recieved.
Thanks
I decided to do some digging on these so called solicitors and I am glad I did, they do not exist!! They ceased trading in November 2005, roxbourgh debt collectors are using the solicitors name as a front to extract money from unwiting drivers who pay up to keep them at bay. i have an email form the solicitors regulation authority confirming this, this means the letters and all the correspondence are in my opinion illegal and cannot be enforced I for one will be making further enquiries with the authority that regulates the company they will have some explaining to do!! Dont pay Graham White Solicitors!
I just cross checked the letters I have been sent by Roxburghe and Graham White Solicitors – Like Barry has mentioned its a front as the phone numbers are similar – Roxburghes tel is 01932 332048, the phone number on the Graham White Solicitors letter head is 01932 332020 and the telephone number on the same letter is 01932 332049 and its not even proper letter headed paper!
I received a letter initially from roxburghe telling me of a car parking fine in a place that i had not even been to, i called them and they said they will send me photographic evidence (which i am still waiting for!), and today i get a letter from Graham Whiteside solicitors telling me that its my final warning, and that i should respond within 14 days, and i receive the letter 7 days after the dated letter!
By the way PCC’s cannot enforce parking fines only councils and offical bodies can. Un less they actually send you a bona fide court paper(I would check with the court it is genuine first) then ignore all correspondance from any private car company they use the threat of action etc etc to bully you into paying up as they do not want to take anybody to court due to costs and the fact they would loose the case as private car parking fines are unenforceable so do not pay ever pay up.
Do you guys have an email address for both Roxburghe and Graham White please?
Thanks.
Funnily enough as Graham White are or have ceased trading they do not have an email address neither do Roxburghe I was told by the SRA that they never have had one either. I suspect Roxburghe who are one in the same company want you to use their own expensive number so they can make some money out of you while they hold you on the line. I suggest you write to the Solicitors Registration Authority via email and they will be able to deal with yoiur request.
I am so relieved to read this. I have been appealing against my dads parking ticket since November, for totally just reasons, only for him now, at 72, to be getting both letters from Roxburge and Graham White, which has been quite distressing for him. Thankfully on a quick google of the solicitors to try to call them, I came across this first. Disgusting and just shouldn’t be allowed to happen. Thanks again….I’m relieved to put his mind at rest.
I’m very glad this has helped, Wendy. I hope it all goes away and that your dad can relax and just forget the whole thing, free of bullies.
Unfortunately the authorities seem to do nothing about this. Perhaps Trading Standards can help.
@ David Not at all, thank you very much for the link.
Hi, I am relieved to read the above. I have just received the letter from Roxburghe Debt Collectors. My only concern is my wife is 8 months pregant and might have to deal with aggressive phone calls from the above and Graham White. Any advice as how to deal with them when they call? Is it best just to hang up? Thanks
We received our Parking Charge Notice in December 2011 from PCN (NW) LTD.
Our first letter after that was from Roxburghe on 17th Jan.
We wrote back refuting the allegation and requested that they refer the matter back to the principle eg PCN (NW) LTD.
Second letter from Roxburghe 2nd Feb. more demands now for £195. We wrote back pointing out we refuted the allegation please refer back to the principle.
Third letter arrived following day 3rd Feb. This letter interestingly enough quotes the principle agency relationship that a registered keeper is responsible for a drivers actions.
This I beleive applies to companies and drivers acting on their business. Otherwise if someone stole your car and went through a red light you would be responsible for thier fine!
Fourth letter 9th february from Michael Sobell of Graham Whites – more threats etc.
We replied to him to please commence court proceedings and we would defend the actuion in court.
Fifth letter from Roxburghe again 20th february, this time they have offered us 14days to stump up or full details of would you believe it ‘our dispute’. before we could reply to this
Sixth letter from Michael Sobell again 29th Feb – Final Warning – at last. We are now ignoring these letters but I will now make written complaints to OFT re the huge amounts being demanded. The solicitors regulation authority our local MP and upon receipt of further harrasing letters we will complain to the police under the Protection from Harrasment Act 1997.
I am writing this to show support to everyone else who has recieved one of these Parking charge notices (or invoice) and then suffered these annoying demands. The more that people stand up to them the less profit they make. Do not post any personal details or identyfying information as the people behind this scam also read through these forums.
I am glad you said they read this forum as since I posted what I know about them i have not received anymore letters strange that?
My daughter received a “Graham White” letter demanding payment of parking fine, with additional costs even though she had already settled the original fine (Genuine) we have a letter from the car park company confirming payment and yet they still pursue her for payment. Where can i go to stop this happening? is there a governing body??
I received a parking fine from CMS last year in July while moving my girlfriend into her new apartment. I later left to find a warden printing out a “Fine” which he said I had to pay. He then took a picture of the car and left.
This happened a second time, but this time round i DID have a permit, yet because it was sitting just slightly under the window, and it was misty – the warden decided to issue ANOTHER “FINE”….
now i’ve received letters from Roxburghe as well (yet to receive the solicitor stuff) I got a call from them and they said I needed to pay the £188 … the call has been recorded and it can be taken to a small claims court. I actually explained the instances mentioned above…
I was told they need to prove the driver was me etc – because i mentioned the above – does this change anything? – meaning – do I need to pay?
The Solicitors Registration Authority is your first port of call then keep all the correspondance for the legal ombudsman their email is here enquiries@legalombudsman.org.uk the email for the SRA is report@sra.org.uk
The SRA have told me Graham White Solicitors do not exist and ceased trading in 1995 do not pay a penny so Roxburghe are acting illegally but the SRA need the evidence to prove it and your correspondance will do that so keep all of it and make sure you copy it and send it to the SRA and Legal Ombudsman.
My case is 382-163 also you might want to report them to the fraud section of the SRA at fraud@sra.org.uk.
Sarah Hodgkins fraud intelligence officer is dealing with all complaints about Roxburghe and Graham White Solicitors she does not seem to believe what i am telling her is true so the more you can send her the better!
In reply to Barry Faust,
I also have had threatening letters from Roxburghe with regards to a parking enforcement notice issued by APCOA. Just this morning, a letter arrives from “Graham White Solicitors” Michael Sobell stating that I need to pay £128 for the notice issued. The “solicitors” are also stating that I will soon be liable for extra costs totalling £207.25, the same as many others I have read about.
Would you recommend that I also contact the SRA with the papers I have had sent to me? I do not intend to pay anything after reading what I have today online.
Neil I personally would not pay but I cannot advise you do not! I would say contact the SRA ask them about the solicitors and be specific regarding the name also ask to be put in contact with the lady I mentioned in the fraud section or you can email the fraud section yourself, keep all correspondance and make sure the SRA see it either copies or orginals if they want originals make sure you copy the letters first.
20th April 2012
Also in reply to Barry Faust,
Well Barry it would appear that regarding the above mentioned battle it still continues. I am in receipt of a letter dated 13/04/12 from G White Solicitors.
I act on behalf of my 85 year old disabled father who is extremely distressed, as a current victim of this fraudulent company receiving threatening letters and so forth from messrs Roxburghe/Graham White Solicitors.
I too will continue to ignore their cheap photocopied correspondence and will be forwarding all copies to the fraud department of the SRA and the legal ombudsman for their comments on the matter. These people need to be dealt with once and for all.
Hi Jon, thank you for the information about the aforementioned parasites and their theiving procedure of duping honest hard working citizens of this country. I also received a Civil Parking Notice fine for £40.00from Vinci Parking in Cardiff in January2012. Knowing I was in Swansea with my car for the whole of the day in question I contacted Vinci by telephone to inform them I had proof that my car and I were not in the place they stated. I requested their proof in the way of photographic evidence to support their claim
I received a call the following day from an emplyee of Vinci confirming their parking warden had input the wrong registration into their system. I asked the person to confirm this retraction in written form to which they duly did within a few days.
All said and done, I thought that would be the end of the matter until the end of March 2012 when I received a Letter from Roxburge debt collectors informing me that the ‘fine’ has now become £94.00 together with all the threatening ‘further costs and legal action from you know who -Graham White Solicitors- This letter whuich was signed by a ‘Steve Dargonne’ (not personally but a photocopy inprint) ie mass produced electronically,
I duly ignored this letter due to the information already received, I received today the next action of this well oiled machine in the form of Graham White Solicitors aka Micheal Sobel Solicitor who again not signed personally but as before a photocopy signature.
This Letter has the hallmarks of a legal document with large bold letters FINAL WARNING at the top folloed by references toward legal statements which are of course the vehicle delivering the intimidation. Before I write to this parasite I googled him to find your blog which delivers good advice on how to deal with such slimeballs. I will be sending my response to this letter shortly but I expect it to take at least 3 to 4 drafts as I find myself typing expletives that I would not normally use in correspondance
Please makle sure both the SRA and Ombudsman are informed and that they are told there are others many others in the same position. One thing they wont tell you. If they cant prove you received the letters they cant prove you received the notice no reply means nothing has been served. If it went to court they would have to prove you received all the notifications without a reply from you they cant.
Hi there
I was Googling Graham White and came upon this article! Luckily I am not a person who has been intimidated by these idiots – Roxburghe. I am just sending about my fourth email appealing the parking notice I received, which I received because Ibis Hotels cocked up and did not issue me with a parking ticket so I could park for free! (So I’m going to complain again to them too.)
In any event, I’m glad I found this article so that I have confirmation that these “solicitors” are in fact just some more morons. I will be mentioning in my email to Roxburghe the fact that they have not responded to any of my appeals and that all of my emails will be put before the court when court proceedings commence, which of course they won’t.
I just ignore the phone…
For every letter I receive from them, I email the scanned copies I have the documentation proving that I had booked a parking space. If anything ever did go to court, I can therefore prove that I was appealing the tickets.
At least I know I’m not alone!!
Oh, and in my last email to them I told them I have no intention of paying the fine anyway. LOL
I have received a letter from Graham White Solicitors threatening court proceedings of £207.25 and that judgement orders wil be made against me for six years. I rang to admit i was parked in Asda just over two hours because of the Christmas rush in December and going to Asda to do my shopping. I received nothing at all until the 17th April, when it was alleged I had received two further letters from them 23rd March and 2nd April. I requested further copies, as I work for a firm of Solicitors, only to be told they did not have them. I asked why, they could not tell me. I spoke to another guy, presumably a manager and asked to speak to the solicitor concerned. I was told he did not speak to anyone. I asked him for copies of the letters and he wanted to know why – as explained I required these copies before I paid anything and I needed to speak to my colleague at my office, he asked why I wanted to do this. I asked him if he would pay something that he did not have letters for and he asked what the gain to me was of having sight of these letters. As he therefore declined in giving me the copy letters or telling me the address for Excel Parking Services, or to speak to the solicitor concerned, I asked for the address to write to, to make a complaint. This address was nothing like the address from “Graham White” and was Roxborough under a Po Box address “PO Box 342 West Byfleet Surrey KT14 6YX. As I explained to him when I send letters to clients I keep copies and these are available, he said they were computer generated ! which computers do they use “A CALL CENTRE” obviously.
This is the email I have sent today, to their account holders email address, their client services email address, their sales email address, and their it support email address…
“Further to the letter received today from Michael Sobell at Graham White Solicitors, a law company which appears not to exist, please find attached yet again my documentation.
As no-one has had the decency to reply to my previous appeals, I do find it hilarious that you are trying to scare me into paying by sending fraudulent solicitors’ letters.
I shall of course refer that matter to Sarah Hodgkins, Fraud Intelligence Officer at the SRA.
All of my previous correspondence will be used in court when you issue legal proceedings.
In the meantime, should you send any further threatening letters, please be advised that they will be filed in my recycling bin.
Kind regards”
We’ll see what happens next! Morons…